October 29, 2017 at 9:34 pm #1942
This week’s articles are “‘I Don’t Want an Independent Catalonia’: Rally Backs Unified Spain” by Alissa J. Rubin, “Pro-Independence Catalans: ‘I’ve Never Felt Spanish‘” by The AP and
“Catalonia’s three ways forward” by Sergi Pardos-Prado. These three articles discuss the on going situation in Spain and Catalonia over the struggle for Catalonian independence. What do you think about the Catalonian situation? Do you think Catalonia should become independent or remain part of Spain? What do you think about the scenarios outlined in the third article. What do you think should be done overall? Come discuss on our forums with other HP MUNC members.
Please remember to keep all discussion civil.October 30, 2017 at 12:06 am #1947
Dylan J. TullochParticipant
I think that Catalonia will NOT be independent very soon, whether or not that is the best result. This is since the Spanish government cannot afford to lose this region since it holds many of its people and income. I think as a whole, it would be better off if Spain kept Catalonia since an independent nation would likely struggle due to Spain pressuring everyone else to stay away from Catalonia. I doubt that Catalonia could join the EU, NATO, or any other nearly necessary alliances with major powers early on and thus would be best to stick with large degrees of autonomy under Spanish rule.October 30, 2017 at 9:15 pm #1948
I agree with Dylan in saying that Catalonia will most likely not become independent as a result of these protest. What seems to me to be the most likely of outcomes is the first scenario outlined in the third article, “Catalonia’s three ways forward” by Sergi Pardos-Prado, a consolidation of Spanish power as the national government seeks to retain control over the Catalonian people. Quite frankly we have already seen steps taken by the Spanish government to do this, ie; stealing voting ballots and sending large amounts of armed national police into Catalonia. A continued consolidation of Madrid’s power as well as a crackdown on Catalan secessionist leaders, similar to what was seen in the Basque region in the past seems the most likely to me.October 30, 2017 at 9:33 pm #1949
I agree with both points mentioned before me in that Catalonian independence will not be something we can expect to see soon. In the third article, Pardos-Prado hinted that he was somewhat certain that the first option, heavier centralization of power, is the most likely scenario and I agree with him for all reasons stated in article. As @elan mentioned, we’ve seen further centralization of Spanish power happen before, as with the prosecution of leaders of Basque political parties. To further support this claim as @dylan hinted at, Spain is aware that Catalonian independence will ruin their economy, seeing as though Catalonia contributes roughly 20% of its GDP despite being only 16% of the population, and they will anything and everything in their power to ensure they will be able to retain the benefits provided by Catalonia.November 1, 2017 at 9:11 pm #1952
As people not directly experiencing the infuriating of not being allowed to govern themselves, or at least some seem to feel they aren’t represented. I agree with a lot of the points, they make sense, but remember these are people, some of which probably don’t care about the GDP of Spain, they care about their own lives and families. It isn’t some abstract overseas secret organization, these are people with real struggles and desires. And to trivialize their wishes by saying “Spain needs money” is kind of insulting in some ways, or at least is would be. I’m not saying its a good idea, but the idea that they shouldn’t be free simply because they are an economic benefit has some historically dangerous connotations. I’m not gonna pull a Dylan and say something purposefully inflammatory by comparing it to slavery (restriction for economic benefits), no offense Dylan. I’m just stating there is a certain inhuman aspect to that argument, a disregard for feelings and emotions, the thing I try not to argue about. But I feel the human side is slightly lost in this argument, unlike last week where the idea of harassment and human feelings was held in high regard. Just saying double standards people.
also completely honest only skimmed the articles, didn’t actually read them all, maybe this point is redundant in some way…. Have a nice night everyone
November 5, 2017 at 8:39 pm #1961
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Max Shiffman. Reason: my spelling is bad so i'm leaving this note to justify it
Dylan J. TullochParticipant
No offense taken, I even take it as flattery that I am now an action. However, there are differences between this independence movement and others. For example, that of Tibet. That is one that many people around the world (basically everyone other than China) agree with to varying levels. Unlike Catalonia, they were their own stable nation very recently. It was only 1950 when Tibet was annexed by China. Can you guess how long ago it was since Catalonia was last independent under a long term government (especially if you don’t count the Kingdom of Aragon). My point is, Catalonia has only really known governance from foreign capitals, and maybe it should be able to taste freedom, but this should probably be through levels of autonomy and not full blown independence. Even regions like Scotland have recently had modern governments, but others like Sonderbund have not other than short-lived revolutionary bodies. Again, Spain would bar Catalonia from any important organizations and be able to prevent them from being able to get many if any allies.
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