January 28, 2018 at 9:46 pm #2188
This week’s articles are “Trump lawyer says a president can’t ‘obstruct justice.’ Can that be true?” by Joan Biskupic, “It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice” by Renato Mariotti and “The Answer to Whether Trump Obstructed Justice Now Seems Clear” by Jeffrey Toobin. These articles discuss newest revelation in the ongoing investigation of President Donald Trump. After new revelations that Donald Trump was debating firing Robert Mueller, the special investigator and was only dissuaded when his consul threatened to resign. What are your thoughts on the articles? Do you believe that this proves President Trump obstructed justice? How do you expect the White House to respond? Come discuss on our forums with other HP MUNC members.February 2, 2018 at 10:49 pm #2193
Dylan J. TullochParticipant
I wanted to wait for the Nunes memo to come out before I responded to this, mostly because I believed that it would show probably a good amount of light on what is happening. After reading the memo, I have determined two things: 1. the ex British spy who took a large part in putting information forward against Trump has little actual evidence and was desperate to prevent Trump from being elected, his words, and 2. the group original put in charge of investigating was hired by the Democrats, i forgot what their name was, i think it was something like Fusion GPS. The point is that the investigation was largely baseless and politically motivated by the media, politicians, and intelligence members. It is deeply worrying that some members are so desperate to get rid of a properly elected President who hasn’t done anything that out of the usual and at this point has done a pretty good job that they will sit for the entire state of the union including parts like Trump’s announcement of the lowest black unemployment in recorded history or just stating god bless america and in god we trust. Just events in this last week, assuming Trump doesn’t do anything stupid, has given me a good amount of hope that he will win a re-election or at least the Republican nominee will. That the Democratic party will stoop so low in politics has made it clear to independents, conservatives, and even some liberals that this party will do whatever it takes to get ahead, not what is better, honest, or moral.February 4, 2018 at 8:52 pm #2194
I disagree with you Dylan. First of all, using the Nunes memo as a basis for your argument is inherently flawed due to the biased nature of the memo.There is evidence memo was edited down and was leaving out key details that completely altered the meaning of the memo by cherry-picking statements. Even if you accept all the info in the memo to be accurate there is still grounds for a FISA warrant were met. In addition, if you read the contents of the memo it suggests that the Trump campaign potentially had a Russian spy working on its campaign. Maybe, there was no collusion, maybe the extent to which the collusion occurred was not as great as we originally thought, but that does not mean that the investigation is illegitimate, and to be honest I think the Nunes memo and the fact that Trump is so actively trying to discredit the FBI investigation(something that Nixon also did) really goes to show how much we need this investigation to determine the truth.February 5, 2018 at 12:54 am #2210
Dylan J. TullochParticipant
I understand that the memo was likely biased to a degree, but the fact that the democrats spent a week or two begging for it not to be released has me believe that it was likely due to the reason that they knew that it would put a bad light on them. Also, I looked into some of the things mentioned in the memo like the hiring of british intelligence agent Steele. Again, he was indirectly paid by the DNC for the creation of information that was at the forefront of the case in the FISA court. Importantly, it is highly unlikely that Trump colluded with Russia. Is it possible that there is a Russian spy, of course. Is it likely, no. Importantly though, the media spent months creating and fabricating a false narrative along with the DNC in order to smear Trump and the Republicans. It is really not a surprise at this point when many Americans, including myself now, have lost faith in the mainstream media to accurately report the news. If I heard tomorrow on CNN that Trump had multiple swastika tattoos, I just wouldn’t believe it, regardless of how true it was. When these networks lie for so long, it gets to the point where they are the little boy who cried wolf, or really in this case, racist sexist Islamophobic xenophobic russian-loving nazi kkk member. Even CNN anchor Van Jones said to a hidden camera that the russia story was a “big nothing burger”. They know that they are lying and yet don’t care. Ergo, I really just hope that they drop this story and move on to their next fabrication (Trump is secretly a monkey, Congress goes bananas).February 6, 2018 at 8:46 pm #2215
The Van Jones video claim is just wrong. It’s not a factual piece of news, the video was edited by a notorious con man, James O’Keeffe to frame Jones remarks in a very tilted manner. You said and I quote,” If I heard tomorrow on CNN that Trump had multiple swastika tattoos, I just wouldn’t believe it, regardless of how true it was.” Now if I’m reading this correctly, you are saying that regardless of the accuracy of a story you won’t believe due to it coming from CNN a well established and reputable jurnalistic institution. To me that just seems foolish and not a wise way of looking at news. If a story is fact it’s fact, just because you don’t like a story you can’t run away from the truth screaming fake news. Facts are facts and lies are lies, and the fact of the matter is that there is a lot of evidence suggesting possible collusion. Here is a list of people connected to Trump who have either plead guilty to obstruction of justice, been indicted by Muller, lied about connections to Russia, lied about actions they took related to Russia on the campaign trail or openly lied to congress about their connections to Russia or had direct connections to Russia during the campaign.
1. Michael Flynn(Lied to VP Pence about discussing Russian sanctions with ambassador)
2. Jeff Sessions(Lied about contacts with Russia during campaign, forced to recuse himself.)
3.Representative Nunes(Not as connected to Trump, but still involved in investigation, stepped aside temporarily over ethics misconduct in investigation)
4.Donald Trump Jr.(Had meeting with Russian lawyer tied to Kremlin over potential dirt on Hillary Clinton.)
5.George Papadopoulos(Obstruction of justice, plead guilty to lying to FBI about Russia connections.)
6.Rick Gates(conspiracy to launder money, conspiracy against the U.S., false statements and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading statements surrounding the Foreign Agents Registration Act)
7. Paul Manafort(conspiracy to launder money, conspiracy against the U.S., unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading statements surrounding the Foreign Agents Registration Act, false statements and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.)
This timeline came from a CBS report by Katie Ross Dominick, Julia Burnham, Nicole Sganga and Brittany Knotts. Link here
So to say that this possible collusion with Russia is just a “nothing burger” just isn’t a reasonable conclusion if you look at the facts.
- This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by Elan Isaacson.
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